Posts by Cold Steel

38

RAY IS OUT!!! LEAVE SOME ENCOURAGEMENT FOR HIM!

by MsGrowingGirl20 in

they've df him...we all were following the judicial of raypublisher....jwstruggle....eric and we all are now awaiting the full video with full details.. this is a happy but hard time since he still has family in...let's try to strengthen him!

he surely needs it now.

give him encouraging words/pictures/videos!.

Cold Steel

 I’m going to be interested to hear his story. Naturally, I’m concerned over how his family is going to take it. If they support him, well and good, but if the Organization has more influence on them than he does, it’s going to be a bumpy ride.

125

A question for Athiests

by EndofMysteries in

i really do not understand how any can be athiests from thinking real hard about it.

how can you think everything on this earth just happened?.

from my understanding, to be athiest, this is pretty much how it goes.

Cold Steel

They just make things up as they go along, they die, then the next one of your gods comes around and says 'oh, that last god had it wrong. I have it right', just to be found out to be wrong by the following god who takes his place.

And this doesn’t happen in science? In the last fifty years of my life, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen articles where scientific theories were debunked by new discoveries. I remember Stephen Hawking writing a book in which he stated that although the theory of black holes was valid, he doubted that they’d ever find any. The ink wasn’t even dry before they began finding black holes. And within a year they were finding black holes everywhere! In fact you can’t look at any part of the nighttime sky without there being hundreds if not thousands of black holes. Not only that, there have been countless articles over the years about how various discoveries would re-write everything we knew about various fields. Interestingly, it happens quite often, especially since the Hubble telescope was launched.

There’s two ways of looking at all this. First, that we made fabulous new discoveries. And second, that what we previously thought was right was all wrong! This has happened in all scientific fields and endeavors, but I have no problems with that. I do, however, see problems when people treat science as a religion. Those of us who believe in the scriptural accounts don’t necessarily see science and religion as mutually exclusive—unless interpretations are narrow on one or both sides.

There were many proto-planets. And the moon was formed from a collision with the earth. It didn't just wander by and gently park itself in orbit around the earth.

Yes, but I have no time to go into the various ramifications of that. Suffice it to say that the moon did wander into our solar system and collide with a planet in the general vicinity. And it is significantly larger in proportion than other moons orbiting other planets. Unlike some others, I don’t believe that God “spoke” the Earth into existence ex nihilo. The word for “create” in the Hebrew scriptures means to “organize,” implying that the Earth was made from existing materials. And I have no problem believing that our moon was created through a cataclysmic collision between two existing worlds. Or that the Earth could be formed in the aftermath. The important thing is not to be wed to a specific theory to the extent that if it were proved untrue, that it would destroy one’s faith.

I also stand behind my other observations in that the intricacies of life not only imply intelligent design; they pretty much require it. The complexities in human DNA are so incredible that to think it happened by chance is inconceivable. It requires that one believe that life began simply and become progressively more complex to the point it made an Adobe Photoshop program look like a child’s doodling.

You need to do some reading on how and when Daniel was composed. It ain't what you think....

In the caves at Qumran, eight copies of Daniel were discovered, and all of them matched the copies in the Masoretic texts. (The longer versions which added apocryphal elements were not found.) Also, Jesus quotes from the book of Daniel three times in the New Testament, which adds a great deal of credibility to the book. Daniel, in chapter 9, gives an exact timeline to the Lord’s ministry. And in chapter 2 he makes an incredible interpretation of a dream that lays out all the major empires that would come to pass. I don’t give much credence to those who argue that those parts are indicative of later authorship.

Even if we dismiss Daniel, the rest of the Bible adds many more impressive prophecies, especially Isaiah, Ezekiel, Zechariah, and Revelation. Also, as mentioned, Jesus prophesied the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple. As a result, all the Christians had left Jerusalem and gathered in places such as Pella before the legions arrived, thereby escaping the wrath of Rome.

125

A question for Athiests

by EndofMysteries in

i really do not understand how any can be athiests from thinking real hard about it.

how can you think everything on this earth just happened?.

from my understanding, to be athiest, this is pretty much how it goes.

Cold Steel

This earth has the fingerprints of God all over it in my view. That’s not to say that God spoke and everything appeared. It obviously took time and a great deal of it. But there are too many necessary things that happened for it all to be chance. For one thing, the orbit of the Earth is in the precise distance from the sun to sustain life. Any closer and it would be too hot, and any further and it would be too cold. The sun also is of exactly the right type and how about the moon? Our moon is clearly an alien to our solar system. It was not spawned by the Earth, nor any other planet in our solar system. And without it we would lack the orbital stability to sustain life. Without it, we would have a different equator every year. Weather patterns would be so sporadic that intelligent life would be unsustainable.

Then there are the complexities of life: bees, pollen, flowers, vivid sunsets and blue skies and the beauty in clouds. As one prophet stated, all things denote there is a God. One also can look at the scriptures and the fulfillment of prophecy. Isaiah 53 speaks of Christ in specific terms. Daniel’s prophecies also have found exact fulfillment not only of future nations and kingdoms, but the length and timeframe of the Messiah and His mission. Christ spoke of the destruction of the temple and the scattering of Israel. He and other prophets also spoke of the gathering of Judah (Isaiah 11) and the rebuilding of the temple, which I’ll bet happens in the near future. Zechariah says that in the last days, Israel would be a “burdensome stone” for all nations, even though all nations would be gathered against it. I still remember the 1968 war and the dire predictions that Israel would be destroyed by all of its neighbors.

The Lord has never provided proof of His existence. But He does provide evidence. And I find the evidence for intelligent creation to greatly outweigh the evidence against it. I don’t believe life is an accident, nor do I believe our existence is the result f happenstance.

Still, we pays our money and we takes our chance!

37

Did God Invent Swords? - Logic Fallacies and Anachronisms

by cognisonance in

we need not conclude that our loving creator was the first one to make what we know as swords.

adam and eve saw turning in front of the angels something that was blazing.

by the time moses wrote the book of genesis, swords were well-known and used in warfare.

Cold Steel

This is a fascinating threat. Never really though about this particular subject before

Well, when you have swords, that's what you get...threats. That's why we keep improving our weaponry!

37

Did God Invent Swords? - Logic Fallacies and Anachronisms

by cognisonance in

we need not conclude that our loving creator was the first one to make what we know as swords.

adam and eve saw turning in front of the angels something that was blazing.

by the time moses wrote the book of genesis, swords were well-known and used in warfare.

Cold Steel

Moses wrote that one river was “the one going to the east of Assyria.” But the land of Assyria derived its name from Asshur, Shem’s son born after the Flood. (Genesis 10:8-11, 22; Ezekiel 27:23; Micah 5:6) Evidently, in his accurate, inspired account, Moses simply used the term “Assyria” to refer to a region that was familiar to his readers.

The question is moot since after the flood, we have no idea whether the ark even came down where it embarked. The rain came for 40 days and 40 nights, but the water kept rising for a total of 110 days and was most likely driven for months before the waters began to recede.

By the time the water subsided, the land had changed dramatically. Lifespans also began going down from nearly a thousand years to what we have today, though it happened incrementally. The landscape Noah and his family knew before the flood most likely was completely alien from that after the flood. In fact, the ark may have been launched in the Western Hemisphere or what is now Australia for all we know. To think it would come down in the same place it embarked from is a bit unlikely at any length. The wind blew furiously upon the ark until the waters began to recede and came to rest in the mountains in or near Turkey's Mount Ararat. So the location of the Garden of Eden could have been anywhere where the waters of the flood were.
Regarding swords, how are we to explain the swords used in heaven in the Apocalypse of John? Are we to suppose that man invented swords and that God began producing them in heaven? The Watchtower writers are exceedingly narrow minded, as usual in that they assume that this Earth is the only one that God ever created. Some early apocryphal texts not discovered until 1947-48 speak of the works of God being eternal, including the creation of other inhabited worlds. If there were, and are, other such worlds, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to think that swords would be weapons devised by the inhabitants of these worlds — worlds that came into being long before this one. And even if this world is the only inhabited creation of God in all the centillions (10600) of eons (which is only the briefest of moments when discussing eternity), I can't believe the Watchtower is talking about who came up with the idea of swords!

Talk about stoopidity (duh!)….

Why would that language be used if before the Flood, animals ate only vegetation?

Well, if that’s true, why did God give Adam and Eve “skins” following their transgression: “Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them. And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever.” (Genesis 3:21-23)

After Adam and Eve sinned and were expelled from the garden, Jehovah prevented them from returning. How? Genesis 3:24 says: “He drove the man out and posted at the east of the garden of Eden the cherubs and the flaming blade of a sword that was turning itself continually to guard the way to the tree of life.”

Doesn’t God know all things from the beginning? Are not all things one eternal round to God? Where did Adam and Eve get their first suits of clothing? And if the Watchtower’s going to answer all such questions, are all those who are resurrected to an eternity of life in a Garden Setting going to be clothed, or are they going to be naked, which was their original states? If Adam and Eve were naked and unashamed, what of the “great crowd” who are going to have to endure eternity picking flowers and having family reunions? Indeed, how is man going to find fulfillment in a world without swords? And what of the anointed? What will they do for the rest of eternity? They will rule those on Earth, we’re told, but if they are resurrected spirits, why not are all righteous people similarly resurrected? And what will they, as spirits, do to fulfill the measure of their creation? Will they help create other worlds?

John said that those who are resurrected will be “co-heirs with Christ.” Tertullion wrote: “For we shall be even gods, if we shall deserve to be among those of whom He declared, ‘I have said, You are gods’ and, ‘God stands in the congregation of the gods.’ But this comes of His own grace, not from any property in us, because it is He alone who can make gods.” And Paul writes, that Jesus, being in the “brightness of [the Father’s] glory, and the express image of his person” who, when He had purged our sins, exercised “all things by the word of his power.” (Hebrews 1:3) If He is the heir and the anointed are his co-heirs, then the power of the anointed is going to be virtually limitless when compared to that of the “great crowd.” For the latter pales in glory and dominion in comparison to the former.

Jesus, says John, speaks with the power of a “two-edged sword,” meaning power. And note His description of Jesus, who had a physical resurrection and was NOT a spirit, a point He repeatedly made to His disciples, but which was lost to the members of the General Body: “His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire. And his feet [was] like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp two-edged sword: and his [face] was as the sun [which] shineth in his strength.”

This description is clearly of a being who is not a spirit; nevertheless, whether it is or isn’t, one wonders how it is that swords now seem to be in full production! If it were a revelation given in our day, would John write, “…and out of his mouth went a fully loaded AK-47”? The imagery somehow would seem…lacking.

My point in all this is that eternity is a very long time, and the General Body seems to have a very limited outlook. The declaration that “we need not conclude that our loving Creator was the first one to make what we know as swords” is patently absurd as is most of the Watchtower’s corny observations. And the one that sticks in my gullet is the doctrine of the “great crowd.” An eternity living in a garden. Why wouldn’t most people prefer being super spirit beings [presumably like Jesus] to trillions of years having bake sales and family reunions? Do they not see the inherent problems with that kind of theology? Maybe God didn’t intend for Adam and Eve to spend eternity in a goldfish bowl. If I were an investigator interested in joining the Organization for some reason, I’d have no desire to be in the great crowd. I’d want to know how to become a being of power and glory.

Advantages of The Resurrected Classes

The advantages of being a member of the Anointed Ones are obvious: Faster than light travel, the ability to go through walls and ceilings, inter-dimensional migration, ability to levitate and to command the elements, limitless ability to learn, power to visit faraway kingdoms and places, and ability to learn about and visit stars and galaxies, helping to create other inhabited worlds and act as angels, to name just a few. Advantages of being a member of the Great Crowd: Power to plan family reunions, ability to hike, bike and visit various places on the Earth, ability to learn musical instruments, sing, paint, bungee jump, parachute, ski, learn Photoshop, bike, mountain climb, photography, cliff climbing, learning astronomy through telescopes, and mastering all those recipes you've been dying to try out. You can also read all the books the anointed ones approve and especially all those back issues of the Watchtower and Awake! You can also visit all the charred bones of the wicked ones that Jehoval slew. That would include all Catholics, Protestants, Mormons, Seventh Day Adventists, Scientologists, Muslims, atheists, agnostics and, of course, those who apostatized from the Organization. And you have all eternity to do these things. Trillions of years of family reunions and religious meetings. Oh, and you can sleep in any day you want. Who could ask for more than that?

51

Jesus was an Angel and used God's name

by Christ Alone in

interesting stuff in the november wt.

note this dishonest quote:.

during his ministry, jesus.

Cold Steel

2. interesting idea…so your belief is that Jesus IS superior to Jehovah? (because his names is above all others.)

The scripture states:

Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high: Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? (Hebrews 1)

Jesus is in the express image of the Father, meaning of course that were you to see the Father and the Son as Stephen did, that you wouldn't be able to tell them apart. The Father, however, is not Jehovah. They are equal in power and glory, but not dominion. The Father's dominion spans the Universe and His dominion is ever growing. Jesus' (Jehovah's) dominion also will grow, but will never equal that of the Father. Jehovah's dominion also is part of the Father's dominion, so this shows they are One in Power and Glory.

The Father's dominion, however, contains populated worlds greater in number than the sand upon the seashores. They are greater than can be numbered by man, but they are His and He knows them. The Son also has dominion, and He is One with the Father in purpose, power and glory.

51

Jesus was an Angel and used God's name

by Christ Alone in

interesting stuff in the november wt.

note this dishonest quote:.

during his ministry, jesus.

Cold Steel

The Jehovah's Witnesses have never caught on to the fact that Jehovah was the pre-existent Jesus.

Whether you believe in the fall of man and the Garden of Eden or not, the entire idea behind the fall is that once Adam and Eve fell, they needed a mediator. Having cut themselves off from Elohim (Gods), the mediator had already been chosen — and that mediator was Jehovah, the God of Israel who was born into mortality as Jesus of Nazareth. That's why He spoke as Jehovah in the Old Testament and to John in the book of Revelation. Thus He had the same titles and the same authority, and in the New Testament it reads: “Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, ‘All power is given unto me in heaven and in Earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.’” (Matthew 28)

At the time Jesus said this, He had been crucified and resurrected. Now He had all power in heaven and Earth. No angel could attain this kind of power, intelligence and glory, for Jesus now had fulfilled His destiny. The scriptures state that Jehovah is the judge of mankind and all nations. And John confirmed that “The Father judgeth no man, but has committed all judgment to the Son.” (John 5:22) Thus, Jehovah and Jesus are one and the same. This becomes even more apparent in the book of Revelation: “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.” (Revelation 1:8) Here He is called “the Lord” and the “Almighty.” And throughout the book He is clearly associated with the God of the Old Testament.

Now hear the words of the prophet Zechariah, who writes that when Jehovah comes with power and glory during the battle of Armageddon: “And they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.” Then he writes: “In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.” (Zechariah 12). Then in Revelation, John writes: “Behold, [Jesus] cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him.” (Revelation 1)

Clearly, Jehovah and Jesus are the same. In the Old Testament, Jehovah will come and 1) the Jews will see Him who their fathers “pierced” and 2) [the Jews] shall “mourn for him as one mourns for his only son.” And they shall be “in bitterness for him as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.” How the Jews could miss this is remarkable; how the Jehovah’s Witnesses could miss it is even more remarkable!

In Revelation, Jesus comes with the clouds and 1) all shall see him; and they also which “pierced” him, and 2) “and all kindreds of the earth shall “wail because of him.” So in both references, the Jews will all see him and in both they will mourn for him. There’s no way that Jehovah and Jesus could be two different entities. And when Jehovah comes, Zechariah notes that the grief shall be as if for “his only son,” and “shall be in bitterness for him, as…for his firstborn.” This prophecy’s references to an only son and a firstborn are distinctly messianic. The point is, when Jehovah returns and His feet stand upon the Mount of Olives, He will be the Son of God…his Firstborn.

Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains…. (Zechariah 14:3-5)

In this prophecy, the “Lord” is clearly Jehovah, who will enter the fray on the side of the Jews. When the Jews see the wounds in his hands and feet, they will instantly realize who He is and that’s what will cause the grief and the lamentation amongst them. The entire Jewish nation will convert to Christianity in a day, but all the Earth will know that Jehovah and Jesus are one and the same.

Ummm...by the way, why do JW angels all have wings?

39

Restrictions On JW Members: What Are They??

by Cold Steel in

can someone please explain the rules and regulations jws are expected to abide by as it pertains to the outside world?

for example, if a jw wanted to debate his religion on a site like this, can he/she do so without fear of reprisal from the church?.

and for those who have cable or satellite television, what are their restrictions?

Cold Steel

No, sorry if I wasn't clear. An apostate is someone who leaves a religion, and I don't know if the JWs consider an unbaptized person an apostate. The Warren Jeffs group calls everyone an apostate whether they've ever been a member or not. They condemn to hell anyone who actually leaves their religion and some members fear excommunication more than anything. Catholics, too, are hard on apostates. There's another extreme group called the Army of God that also controls its members by either excommunicating them or making the penalty (after death) so horrible that it's something they fear.

I assume you're a former member. Did you bail or were you eased out? The ancient prophets and apostles were led by the Holy Spirit. Why do you think the GB is more reluctant to claim the same inspiration? They seem to balk at claiming revelation? If they ARE led by the Holy Spirit, what way other than revelation can information conveyed between God and man?

If someone in the GB claimed to see an angel or have an inspired dream or made a prophecy, how do you think the membership would react? Would they be excited or would they be skeptical? Ellen G. White claimed to have all three, but they weren't very substantial. Still, she electrified her followers and engaged in parlor tricks which they took as miracles.

39

Restrictions On JW Members: What Are They??

by Cold Steel in

can someone please explain the rules and regulations jws are expected to abide by as it pertains to the outside world?

for example, if a jw wanted to debate his religion on a site like this, can he/she do so without fear of reprisal from the church?.

and for those who have cable or satellite television, what are their restrictions?

Cold Steel

Regarding Solomon, many JWs know his failings, but they still accept Ecclesiastes as an inspired book of scripture. In fact, the entire soul sleeping doctrine hinges on Ecclesiastes 9:5. Solomon destroyed his life by allowing his wives to lead him into apostasy and erecting heathen altars in the place of God's. Writing in the sunset of his life, he viewed his life as wasted and perceived that everything "under the sun" as pointless, aimless, vain. In fact, he says repeatedly that all is vanity. But why would he say that? Does anyone really believe that God wants us to come away from reading Ecclesiastes with the view that our lives are nothing but vanity? I don't think so, but it's little wonder that Solomon would have such a negative philosophy given his wasted life.

To Solomon, not all the wisdom in the world compensates for all the tragic decisions he made in his life. That's why he wrote that " the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead." But he's not writing for God; he's writing for himself and about himself. The hearts of all men aren't evil and full of madness, but his was. Ecclesiastes is not an eschatological work, but a philosophical book! And God didn't place man on Earth without good reason and He never taught such a thing.

The apostles referred to their bodies as tabernacles that could be removed from our spirits like a man can remove a garment. But early leaders in the JWs fixated on Ecclesiastes to show that " the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun." But if taken literally, then are we really to understand that the dead have not "any more a reward"? Does that mean that the Atonement is for naught? If we can expect no more a reward after death, then we may as well hang it up now and forget the entire Gospel!

The book Crises of Conscience by Ray Franz sounds like a great book to finish up the summer with. I've been reading about Warren Jeffs, but it might be nice to change gears a bit. Sounds like there's a reason the WTS has such strict rules about reading "apostate" literature. If most reasonable people use reason, it would constitute a real threat. As far as I know, "apostates" refers only to those who have never been baptized. As TornApart notes that the whole idea is that " the Faithful and Discreet Slave [is] being directed by God (even though not inspired of God like the Bible writers and even though still imperfect men). The idea is that if the guidance comes from God then you don't question it." This is what really raised the first serious run ins I had with the JW missionaries when I was taking their "Bible study." How can any group of men be inspired of God, but not like the Bible writers? If they are God's Organization -- "The Truth" -- shouldn't the GB receive exactly the same sort of inspiration? Isn't God the same, yesterday, today and tomorrow, the same unchangable God? And if Peter, James, and John received revelation in the form of inspiration in their day, shouldn't the same inspiration be enjoyed today by God's servants...er...slaves?

One would think!

Why would they be hesitant to claim the same sort of revelation? In fact, what could possibly be the difference if, indeed, it was inspiration? Maybe it's just "light" (which can be variable at best and wrong at worst). The apostles didn't speak of light in their scriptures and if the GB is convinced that they are mentioned by Jesus, why would the mode of communication be different? And how arrogant to think they are prophesied of in scriptures when they've had no heavenly communication to confirm it!

Then to think that anyone who leaves the church is guilty of apostasy, and to create all the rules and regulations we've discussed here! It just, to me, screams FALSE PROPHET. They can't claim heavenly confirmation, so they tell people that their claim is based on the [dubious] fact that if it's not them, then by the process of elimination it has to be them or...them! Process of elimination! Slam, dunk!

The huge problem is that nowhere in the past has the Lord ever used the process of elimination to send a prophet to the people. Instead, we're told in the scriptures that by the mouth of two or three witnesses (no pun intended) shall every word be established. Wouldn't it stand to reason that if, as Amos said, the Lord God would do nothing save He would reveal it to His servant the prophets. How many times did Jesus tell the Jews to search the scriptures, for there they would find the promises of His coming. In Ezekiel 38, the prophet records the word of the Lord to Gog, the antichrist who would seek to destroy Israel during Armageddon: " Thus saith the Lord God ; Art thou he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days many years that I would bring thee against them?" Thus the Lord confirmed that the prophets saw Gog in the latter days. And in Isaiah 11, the prophet predicts that God would bring the Jews back into their ancestral lands in the last days: " And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth." And that's not the only prophecy about the present gathering of Judah which, by the way, the General Body rejects!

So where's the prophecy that prophesies of them? They have one verse in Chapter 24 of Matthew, and it's highly ambiguous. And with that verse they turn families against each other, stand in judgment over the congregations penning endless restrictions by which members are not only expected to live by, but turn in family members and friends who don't comply. That verse justified an administration in Bethel chaired by one or more executives who throw their weight around, use foul language and interpret the scriptures as they see fit with no toleration for other viewpoints. Heck, if they're wrong about one thing (like man having a spirit vice a "breath"), then they become frauds.

False prophets. And it's no wonder they don't ordain their church officers. They have no divine authority.

17

JW's , Star Trek V and pain.

by DATA-DOG in

since everyone is thinking of star trek this week, i have a question.

in star trek v, kirk has a chance to have his secret pain removed by spock's half-brother.

kirk refuses, and says that he needs his pain because it makes us who we are.

Cold Steel

Most of that is true except death. Death is many times a release. Death can be painful for those of us who lose others, but many times even then it can be a blessing. The scriptures speak of those in the last days who would seek death but not find it. And many who suffer Near Death Experiences say that once they experience death, they'll never fear it again.

Taxes are painful, political conventions are painful, bum prosates can be painful, and most of all, kidney stones can be painful.

I don't know how many meeting JWs have each week, but I've heard they can be painful.